md261 on 17th November 2010
PokerStars Game $35+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50)
Seat 1: Player 1 (2450 in chips)
Seat 2: Player 2 (1640 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero (1470 in chips)
Seat 4: Player 4 (1335 in chips)
Seat 6: Villain (2105 in chips)
Player 4: posts small blind 25
Villain: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [3h 3d]
Player 1: folds
Player 2: folds
Hero: raises 100 to 150
Player 4: folds
Villain: raises 150 to 300
Hero: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [Kd 6c Kh]
Villain: bets 150
Hero: calls 150
*** TURN *** [Kd 6c Kh] [8s]
Villain: bets 50
Hero: calls 50
*** RIVER *** [Kd 6c Kh 8s] [3c]
Villain: bets 100
Hero: raises 870 to 970 and is all-in
Villain: calls 870
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero: shows [3h 3d] (a full house, Threes full of Kings)
Villain: shows [Ad As] (two pair, Aces and Kings)
Hero collected 2965 from pot
Pocket 3’s on the button is a tough hand to play. Some would shy away from playing it against a Loose-Passive player like the Villain, reasoning that he is too likely to call the pre-flop raise; That is a reasonable way of thinking about it. On the other hand a pair in position against an enormous fish is not the worst situation to be in.
There are 2 marginal moves in this hand by the Hero, raising in the first place, and calling the tiny reraise. The reraise from this player is hard to read, could be a real quality hand, or could be A7offsuit. Folding is an option, but the Hero plays against this particular enormous fish regularly, so it is not wise to fold to tiny out of Position reraises too often, in case that encourages the Villain to do it more often.
The flop is pretty good for a rag pocket pair, no need to bloat the pot, but definitely a reason to call the flop bet.
The turn bet is a real sign of weakness, it is unlikely Villain has a King at this point, it would just be too strange if he had played a King like this (though against an enormous fish anything is possible). Most likely hands are AQ-A7o, or a higher pocket pair, again, pot odds demand a call.
Miracle on the river! Villain’ssmall bet again suggests an Ace high or weak pocket pair, but Villain is an enormous fish, and is likely to call an all-in with those hands regardless. If the river had been anything other than a 3 or an A, Hero would have just called, again enticed by good pot odds.
Hero shoves, Villain calls and flips the Aces he was scared were beaten, and he actually didn’t play them too badly (considering it is unlikely that Hero has any more than 2 outs). Shoving was the Hero’s only real option on this river, it is a short shove, less than the pot so could easily appear to be a bluff, and it is impossible for the Villain to put him on a full house. Furthermore it is often good to shove on the river against enormous fish when you are very likely to have the best hand, making terrible calls for large amounts of chips is often a large part of the reason for ROI’s of -40%.
This is a great hand for discussion, you could talk to 4 different people and get 4 different opinions on how it was played, although the Villain had AA this time, his range is fairly wide there, and you could make a good case for folding at 3 points before the turn. This hand will attract many different opinions because it is so marginal.
Please post your thoughts!
md261
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Would play the hand the same way in this situation.But i would just make the raise 120 preflop. Just to make the C-bet a little smaller if the flop comes reasonable for 33, and if checked to us ( to loose a little less chips if we get check raised on flop or even called and not being able to continue on turn )
ReplyDeletei don't think it would be 2 bad calling on the button w/ a small pocket pair against an oponnent who is most likely going to call a raise.How the hand was played i think there wasn't any mistakes that u made.....
ReplyDeleteFirst off,I don't play at this level yet,but a fish is fish all the same...I generally lean towards folding 22-66 when there is a whale in the blinds as they are always calling when blinds are at this level and although we have position,they are check calling all flops most of the time with god knows what for who knows why!This leaves us most time checking back turns and rivers unimproved and if villain makes any sort of decent stab at river we fold high %.Overall i feel playing like this is weak on hero part but has to be weighed up on success of taking pot down with small pair v this type of player,which in my experience is less than half time.Waiting for better opportunities to arrise is better overall imo.Since iv'e got out of habbit of playing any small-mid pair /any pos/any time and focus on the 'what if i raise here/against this guy,what are the chances he will call or fold etc' i'm having better success in my overall game and instead of playing cards i'm starting to play poker...
ReplyDeleteAs played,i think it's fine.Do we ever fold to min raises in pos??
Anyway,just my tuppence..
Thank you to everyone who took the time to comment.
ReplyDeleteSacha, raising to 120 pre-flop would definitely be a good alternative. You would create a smaller pot on the flop which would make your positional advantage even greater. Against this opponent the raise size does make a difference though, and I would not be surprised if he called with 65%+ of his range if I raised to 120; It is even trickier to decide what to do as it is both a steal raise AND a value raise to play a fishbowl in position, when normally a raise from the button is one or the other.
chgennai, I generally don't like to limp first in on the button,though it is an acceptable play, especially if the blinds are low, and the players in the blinds are FishBowls. In this case I especially wanted to raise to shut out the SB, who is a good Regular,who likes to mix it up with excessive moves.
Annonymous, what you say is true, if I had less chips I probably would have just folded,and even with this chipstack,I could very well have folded. It is true that you don't always have to play every pocket pair or Ace first in on the button.
Al 'md261' Mcclenahan